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  • Next episode of the "Merlin" rewatch-marathon is "Valiant". We start to watch (and hopefully discuss if you wish) it on Saturday, February 23rd, 2013   :-)

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    • Do you mean the 23rd or Sunday the 24th?

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    • Oops, 23rd, of course. I was in the future again :-D  Thanks MerlinFollower, I edited it.

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    • Your welcome.

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    • awesome. I'll be here.  

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    • As far as I'm informed, at least according to what I read on the internet, "Valiant" belongs to the fan's least favourite epsiodes of season one. If this is true, I have to agree with that.

      Nevertheless, I liked this episode (just not as much as others), probably also because tournaments are not my favourite things on TV.

      I was wondering what drove Valiant to kill Arthur but I suppose it was all only for the prize to win. The character Valiant was a typical villain to me and it was clear from the beginning that he would fail once he faces Arthur. What was interesting was the way the protagonists try to prevent Arthur from being killed by magic. The outcome was secondary to me since Arthur would not die in episode two already ;-)

      One thing that surprised me was the fact that Gaius left the poisoned/wounded Ewan alone in the quarters when he knew but too well that another attack was likely.

      I loved how Merlin practised to bring things to life and the suddenly awakened unreal dog barkig behind the door

      This was one of the first episodes in which Merlin has a hard time making himself heard, and Arthur, Uther and others denying what a servant is claiming to know. Since Arthur saw that Merlin was right in the end, it would have been nice if Arthur had grown more senible and sensitive to Merlin's warnings in the future. Alas, this treatment lasted until the very end of the entire show.

      There was also the introduction of the royal's arrogance towards servants, especially on Uther's side, which was understandable but also very unpleasant.

      And Arthur and Morgana sort of flirting is actually proof to me that the showrunnres had not planned to make Morgana Uther's daughter from the beginning.

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    • I've missed the relationship between Arthur and Morgana :) it's nice rewatching those episodes. Too bad the writers completely abandoned them in season 2 and had Morgana be Uther's daughter in series 3...

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    • 46.190.23.6 wrote:
      I've missed the relationship between Arthur and Morgana :) it's nice rewatching those episodes. Too bad the writers completely abandoned them in season 2 and had Morgana be Uther's daughter in series 3...

      I know that was great Arthur and Morgana's relationship until they found out about Morgana being Uther's daughter and everything changing.

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    • What I can't figure out is what Valiant's motivation was. He showed more interest in the prospect of escorting Morgana to the feast than in the prize money, so it seems unlikely that his motive was financial and, as lovely as Morgana is, surely valiant wouldn't go to such lengths to escort her to a feast. There was no suggestion that he wanted to defeat Arthur by fair means or foul to take him down a peg or two. He was taking the kind of measures you might expect in a situation where command of the army was at stake, or where Morgana was the child Uther acknowledged and the winner of the tournament would get to marry her and become heir to the throne.

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    • Great! Can't wait!

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    • "What I can't figure out is what Valiant's motivation was. He showed more interest in the prospect of escorting Morgana to the feast than in the prize money, so it seems unlikely that his motive was financial and, as lovely as Morgana is, surely valiant wouldn't go to such lengths to escort her to a feast. There was no suggestion that he wanted to defeat Arthur by fair means or foul to take him down a peg or two. He was taking the kind of measures you might expect in a situation where command of the army was at stake, or where Morgana was the child Uther acknowledged and the winner of the tournament would get to marry her and become heir to the throne."

      Hmm, true, if he had killed Arthur, Uther surely wouldn't have approved of him and promised him a place in Camelot. Maybe he was just a tool to show the audiences that magic corrupts without a sensible reason. But I agree, his motives were being kept in the dark and it would have been good to know why he was so eager to kill Arthur. It would make sense if Uther would have been someone who had approved of a good fighter even when this fighter kills his son. However, Valiant had no reason to assume that the king would have "hired" him after killing Arthur. Yes, his intentions were quite weird.  Uness he really only wanted the gold and didn't care for anything else.

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    • Hmm, true, if he had killed Arthur, Uther surely wouldn't have approved of him and promised him a place in Camelot.

      I'd say that, had Valiant used his shield to kill Arthur in the finale, Uther would have taken the word of a servant about him using magic once Gaius could show the snake bites. The characters were acting as though Arthur was going to die in the fight but it wasn't a fight to the death and anything Valiant might have hoped to gain from the tournament, be it the cash prize or an honoured place in Camelot, would only be his if he defeated Arthur without killing him or causing serious harm.

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    • I know. But you haveto admit Valiant was only in the tournament for the gold. He didn't really care about who h killed or hurt to get it as long as he won. Although the cast's acting in Valiant was spectacular. They way they threw all that scence of different emotions into the fight between Arthur and Valiant was brilliant.

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    • But would he have had the gold if he killed Arthur, especially when he had already been accused of using magic to cheat? Whatever about cheating in his other matches, he couldn't use his shield against Arthur and hope to walk away with the prize.

      It strikes me as odd that they were convinced that Arthur would die if he faced Valiant, and that it was presented as though Valiant was going to use his shield in the tournament. Logically, you'd expect that, no matter how much he wanted the prize, he'd know better than to cheat when he's facing Arthur. Of course, you'd also expect that the characters would have recognised that it need not have been a case of Arthur either letting everybody down by not fighting or getting killed by Valiant. Valiant wouldn't have bothered using the shield if he won without it.

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    • Well he might have gotten the gold if he had killed Arthur especially if no one had seen him use the sheild. Uther may of had no choice but to accept the fact that Arthur had been defeated. Arthur had no choice but to fight anyway, if Valiant used the sheild or not, because it was either be seen as a coward or fight till one of you is dead. I know that Valiant wouldn't have used the sheild if he believed he could win without it. But he had heard that Arthur was the strongest warrior so he may have felt that he would have had no choice but to use magic to win.


      But we don't know Valiant's background so he could of had a past grievance with Uther or Arthur. We just don't know.

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    • Your logic is undeniable, ReganX. So the only explanation would be what MerlinDragonLord said, that he held a gruge against Uther and/or Arthur and was some sort of a kamikaze-warrior. However, the episode failed to state this out if this was the case. Maybe Valiant was just a fanatic about winning even when he gets in trouble afterwards. He tried to kill Arthur in the tournament after the snakes were summoned by Merlin and despite the fact that now everyone could see that he was using magic. If he had been clever, he would have dropped the shield and pretended that this was a conspirancy in order to blame him instead of chouting "kill him" in front of the king and everyone else.

      It's also a miracle why the snake bites on Ewan's body weren't evidence enough. If Arthur had been bitten by the snakes, the same bite wound would have shown on his body and would have proven that Valiant really used magic.

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    • That is true. If he had been smart enough to do that. He would have blamed it on Merlin because well Uther wouldn't have believed him if he had balmed Arthur. But had he of blamed Merlin then Uther may have believed that. As Arthur was only going on Merlin's word when he called the audience with Uther on the Merlin's word that it was true.


      So yeah. Valiant probably would have blamed the conspiracy of it on Merlin as Merlin was the one who got Arthur to call the audience in the first place. And he also could have added, to prove it was a conspiracy made by Merlin, that he saw him coming out of his chambers. So it would have made the conspiracy view for Uther more believable. But I suppose Arthur would have stuck up for Merlin.


      Although no one but Gaius and Merlin saw the snake bites. So no one but them would have seen the evidence that's why they were relying on his word, but Valiant knew he couldn't allow that to happen so he sent another snake to bite him. No one but Merlin and Gaius actually saw the snake bites. Arthur just went on Merlin's word when he called that audience.

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    • Your logic is undeniable, ReganX. So the only explanation would be what MerlinDragonLord said, that he held a gruge against Uther and/or Arthur and was some sort of a kamikaze-warrior. However, the episode failed to state this out if this was the case. Maybe Valiant was just a fanatic about winning even when he gets in trouble afterwards.

      Valiant's main issue, as Villains of the Week go, is that there was never any motive given. A season later, when King Odin wants Arthur dead, we're told that it was because his son died at Arthur's hand. With Valiant, we don't know why he went to such lengths to win a tournament, or why he didn't have the sense to do as Fimber suggested, and pretend to be the victim of a conspiracy when the snakes came to life. It was also odd that other characters believed that he'd dare to use the shield against Arthur.

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    • Old thread- but yeah, I agree with everyone who considers him a weak villain- Mary Collins, in the previous episode, clearly did have a motivation, but yeah, I really don't understand his motivation- plus, I think the actor was weak too to be honest

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    • A Lurker in the Woods
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